good morning. i'm chris jansing. pundits and pollsters are calling round one for mitt romney, though the spin game is on. >> he's been reversing or rehearsing for this since last june and delivered his lines well. the problem isn't with his performance. the problem is with his underlying theorys. >> i thought he did exactly what he had to do to turn this campaign around. i thought it was about as devastating a victory and defeat that i've seen in a presidential campaign. >> romney appeared poised and confident. he attacked the president's policies aggressively without being disagreeable and he actually looked like he was having a good time. >> look, i have five boys, i'm used to people saying something that's not always true but keep on repeating it and ultimately hoping i'll believe it. but that is not the case. >> president obama, meantime, seemed to hang back, subdued,

the strategy seemed to be that when you're ahead, don't rock the boat. but he did try to pin mitt romney down on specifics. >> he says that he's going to close deductions and loopholes for his tax plan. that's how it's going to be paid for but we don't know the details. he says that he's going to replace dot frank, wall street reform, but we don't know exactly which ones. he won't tell us. he now says he's going to replace obama care. at some point i think the american people have to ask themselves, is the reason that governor romney is keeping all these plans to replace secret because they are too good? is it because somehow middle class families are going to benefit too much from them? >> let me bring in nick khristoff. let me read one of your many tweets last night, nick.

obama is such a gifted speaker but tonight he seemed passive, distracted and defensive. what happened? >> i mean n a word, he blew it. it is not the same as blowing a campaign. i think part of it was expectations and romney did much better than expectations. but beyond that, he let romney get away with accusing him of being the one who is undecided on big banks, on being the one who would let people lose their health insurance, of being the one who didn't care about the little guy. and essentially obama didn't push back. he didn't whack him. i think that's going to have to change in future debates. >> one of the questions going into this was how aggressive would mitt romney be. and he challenged a lot. let me play just a little clip to get your take. >> and congratulations to you, mr. president, on your anniversary. i'm sure this was the most romantic place you could imagine here with me. you said you would get a deduction for taking a plant overseas. look, i have been in business for 25 years, i have no idea

what you're talking about. i maybe need to get a new accountant. >> the question a lot of people asked, republicans particularly are, where has this mitt romney been so far, but what's your take? >> well, i think the great thing about mitt romney going into this debate was he arrive d ami expectations and could only surprise on the upside. he managed to play it very calm and project a very moderate voice. he was very reassuring and he managed to hone in on the errors the obama campaign has been talking about to do with the middle class. and he tried to reclaim the middle class debate as his own. the fact of the expectation so low that he was in some ways the underdog really played to his advantage. it will be quite interesting to see what happens the next debate when it will be obama who will be the underdog instead. >> there were times when the president made a point, all there was sometimes a little me andering to get there. let me play one of those examples. >> i've got to tell you, governor romney, when it comes to his own party during the course of this campaign, has not

displayed that willingness to say no to some more extreme parts of his party. >> that, nick, was one of the tougher times that he actually made a point to mitt romney directly. >> much of the time when president obama made points, it was done in a very professorial way. this clearly is a huge exaggeration on the part of romney. president obama could have made the part of him walking away from paul ryan's own plan on this, that essentially it leads medicare to run out of money eight years earlier. and he could press romney on why on earth he wants to redistribute money from ordinary taxpayers to hospital company shareholders. he didn't do any of that. >> speaking of pressing, which was 47%? when was bain capital? where was the war on women? >> it was a very low energy

debate. there weren't a lot of zingers or agrow or flash points. if you were watching that for the first time coming into the political landscape cold, you would wonder whirks haven't the guys come together with a bipartisan fiscal deal over the last couple of years? you didn't get that sense of intense anger and emotion on stage last night. yes, they are different in the issues, but you really could feel these are two professorial people with many views could have been pretty boring to watch. and there was not the passion. >> i want to bring in congressman steve israel, democrat from new york, also the chair of the democratic national campaign committee. i'm sure you listened to the post-debate last night. no 47%, no bain, there are for many democrats big supporters of the president's missed opportunities, what do you think of the debate last night? >> i might buy a used car from mitt romney but i'm not going to buy the used policies he's

advocating that got us into the great recession. >> what was that line last night? >> there were two moments in this relevatory. he doubled-down on the proposition that faced with a deal of $10 of spending cuts, for $1 in taxes to the rich, he would reject the deal. once again, this relentless defense and protection of the rich. and secondly, i think last night showed the american people and the middle class that mitt romney has a secret plan to eliminate the one tax deduction that keeps the middle class in their homes. and that's the deduction for mortgage interest and taxes. he says he's going to lower tax rates but eliminate corporate tax loopholes and personal tax loopholes. i think he has a secret plan to eliminate that tax critical to the middle class. >> do you think that's what viewers walked away thinking? >> i think they walked away thinking mitt romney would be a

great used car salesman, but the policies he's articulating will get us right back into the mess that president obama has been working so hard to dig us out of. >> i suspect many walked away last night feeling a bit confused, maybe a bit bored by the technical language and lack of passion. and they are possibly asking the question around the world that many are, which is why can't these guys get together to hammer out a fiscal solution? because actually they were talking about the details, they didn't seem to be so incredibly so far apart on many of the issues. >> were they? >> i was just thinking just now it is too bad steve israel couldn't go out with an obama mask and substitute for the president. there are a lot of points you are making last night that the president missed. >> what was the strategy? play it safe? >> i'm not sure, but i think a couple things were going on. after the democratic convention a lot of people were saying the president should have taken the bill clinton strategy and really laid out very carefully in a

meticulous way the holes in the romney strategy. he tried to do that. bill clinton does it in a warm and empathetic way. and president obama did a little bit of that but in this very disengaged law/professor-type of approach. some people think it is harder for the president to be nasty, be tough because then he comes across as an angry black man who is going to scare people. i don't know, but for whatever reason it -- he just did not push back. he did not engage. >> i think also the lack of audience noise was an issue and the way the debate was staged. it added to this lack of energy. remember, this is a year when most people watching debates on television or getting their news are used to the kind of roar of the crowd. they used to tweet, they are used to crowd engagement. to have two people quiet ligating on the stage in a professorial way is quite alien for most american people today.

>> there's that same perception that it is reality, even liberal pundits were critical of the president. a lot of the post and headlines today will say mitt romney won this debate. they are both going out on the road today, they are back in campaign mode, there's another vice presidential debate before they go head-to-head, what does the president say today? does he sort of reset? >> the president just needs to be the president. he needs to remind the american people that last night mitt romney doubled down saying he would not except $10 of spending cuts if it came with a dollar of increased taxes on a millionaire. he has to continue to remind the american people about his priorities, focusing on the middle class and mitt romney's priorities focusing on the rich. the final piece, this is one debate. mitt romney went through a republican presidential debates where he got clobbered and there were headlines he lost the debate and his campaign was over. one debate does not define an

election. >> we have been talking about how there are two more days besides this one debate, does tomorrow heighten the importance of what we see? >> i don't know. there's so many unexpecteds between now and then. we'll have the jobs number and the international crisis. we'll see iran perhaps -- >> what's going on in syria today. >> there are so many things and the election is a lifetime away. so, you know, we don't -- we have no idea the other factor that is are going to shape this election. >> you think mitt romney won a round in what is still a pretty long fight. we have 33 days? >> i think he's ahead. >> that's $500 million worth of negative advertising coming down the road in terms of funding. at the end of the day, that can be as important as what we saw last night. >> speaking of money, since i have you here, congressman, a big article in "the wall street journal" today.

democratic backers steered congressional races. their analysis shows unions have outspend gop super packs 2 to 1, is that right? and what does that mean for taking control of congress? >> in 2010 we didn't lose the house to house republicans, we lost it to republican super packs, we lost it to karl rove and those who swept into the district with secret undisclosed money and stole the elections away. we are not going to let that happen again. we are running to take the house back with reformers, candidates committed if they get elected to pass a disclose act, to amend the constitution and make sure secret money doesn't infiltrate elections and to pass ongoing and sustained election reform. those are the kinds of solution-oriented candidates we need in congress as opposed to the tea party member who is won't cut a deal for $10 in spending cuts if it means a dollar to millionaires.

>> they always say follow the money. what do you think, jillianan? >> follow the money is critical. it is pretty hard to track exactly where the money is going. one of the things right now is that the economy is at a pretty uncertain stage. talk about the jobs numbers, there are really cross currents there and you can read the economy many ways. the opinion polls show that democrats and republicans have a very different perception about whether there's actually growth right now or not. and what we are going to see is a lot of the money targeted to campaigns that are trying to ferry out the weak spots in each other's arguments and target people to play on those fears. >> and the european economy could blow up in ways to have a huge ratification here. >> if in doubt, blame the europeans. >> jillian, well said. nick, great to have you. congressman israel, thank you so much for coming in. good to see all of you. while the debate focused on domestic issues, as we just

mentioned, the situation in syria is getting worse. turkey launched a retaliatory launch against syria this morning, the second since a mortar attack yesterday that killed five people in the turkish border town. russia says syrian officials said the shelling was an accident. turkey's parliament is debating whether to deploy troops although they have no intention of declaring war on syria. attention, well, everyone. you can now try snapshot from progressive free for 30 days. just plug this into your car, and your good driving can save you up to 30%. you could even try it without switching your insurance. why not give it a shot? carry on. now you can test-drive snapshot before you switch. visit progressive.com today. check out the latest collection of snacks from lean cuisine. creamy spinach artichoke dip, crispy garlic chicken spring rolls. they're this season's must-have accessory.

lean cuisine. be culinary chic. constipated? yeah. mm. some laxatives like dulcolax can cause cramps. but phillips' caplets don't. they have magnesium. for effective relief of occasional constipation. thanks. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'.

[ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. extra curricular activities help provide a sense of identity and a path to success. joining the soccer team. getting help with math. going to prom.

i want to learn to swim. it's hard to feel normal, when you can't do the normal things. to help, sleep train is collecting donations for the extra activities that, for most kids, are a normal part of growing up. not everyone can be a foster parent... but anyone can help a foster child. mitt romney is giving specifics for one plan. if he wins the white house, working with democrats. >> as president i will sit down on day one, actually, a day after i get elected, i'll sit down with leaders of the democrats as well as republican leaders as we did in my state, we met for a couple hours to talk about the issues and the challenges in our state in that case. >> i think governor romney is going to have a first day

because he is also going to repeal obama care, which won't be popular with democrats as you're sitting down with them. >> joining me is former democratic governor arch davis now a republican. good to see you, congressman. good morning. >> chris, good morning to you and to your fellow hosts. >> thank you. mitt romney says he'll sit down with democrats, but the president said he'll have a pretty busy first day. do you think there's a problem in these debates, and let me just take that statement, in particular, to make a sweeping statement like that, given where we really are right now in congress and most americans' opinions on congress? >> well, there's no question, this is a very polarized time, but every time mitt romney got to talk about his work in massachusetts with democrats, mitt romney got to make a very important point last night. he was a republican governor, one of the most democratic states in the country, who had almost no republican allies in the legislature and he still managed to get things done.

yes, he did manage to get a health care plan that was done that worked for massachusetts and that was bipartisan approved. now, many swing voters who heard that last night processed the idea of someone matching to govern despite the other party working against him, someone managing a tough political environment and in other words they heard a template from mitt romney doing what barack obama has failed to do in the last four years. so the fact that mitt romney got to talk about a record of bipartisanship that, yes, did produce a health care law in massachusetts, but also put massachusetts number one in the country in educational rankings, that's all to the good for mitt romney. and many americans did not process that information until last night. >> this was by most accounts, and i'm sure you heard this too, congressman, the most policy-oriented debate, maybe we've ever had. at times it was pretty wonky, especially for folks following

it so closely may not know dodd frank and some of the specifics they talked about. and there's also criticism of the format, that it was a little too open-ended. do you think that voters, just in general, took away something important from this or does this format need to be scrapped and to go back to the old where the buzzer hits? >> i think last night's format was very good for the american people. maybe not so good for pundits or people who want to score these things like ball games. but let me tell you why it was good for the american people. they don't want to see whether someone can give an answer in 60 seconds. they don't really care about that skill. they care about whether someone has plans, whether they have ideas and can they defend those ideas. and they got to hear that last night. president obama and governor romney got to have an open-ended exchange on i think the most important questions in this campaign.

and isn't it telling last night that president obama himself did not bring up bain capital? isn't it telling that president obama himself didn't accuse governor romney of causing women to die from cancer because of things that happened in companies he ran? isn't it telling that president obama didn't make much of this 47% gaffe a week ago? >> he did make money of the $5 trillion tax cut. >> well, let me talk about that. >> let me just finish my question, which is that there is also a perception by people following this that we saw a conservative mitt romney in the primaries and now we are seeing a more centerist mitt romney l. the real mitt romney please stand up. >> let's talk about the fact for you now, do you know where that number comes from? $3 trillion, first of all, it's a ten-year number. $3 trillion of it is letting the bush tax cuts continue. now, most americans would believe that continuing the tax

rates of the last nine years is not a tax decrease, they would believe it's continuing the status quo. but $3 trillion of that number comes from continuing the bush tax cuts. president obama favors continuing 82% of the bush tax cuts himself. so president obama supports most of that number. the remaining $2 trillion is cobbled together from taking governor romney's proposals to reduce the corporate rate, which by the way, president obama wants to reduce the corporate rate too. and adding to it rhetoric from the campaign about reducing the middle income tax burden. the reality is this $5 trillion number is not a specific plan by romney. it's cobbling a number of things together and including things obama and romney both agree on. >> but it is a number, a plan he has talked about. unfortunately, we are out of time, congressman. thank you so much. >> president obama claims $3 trillion of that number himself,

so does president obama have a $3 trillion plan to cut taxes? he doesn't want to go around talking about it a whole lot. >> former congressman arch davis, thank you so much. federal authorities have launched a criminal probe into a company hired by republicans. after looking at dozens of suspicious forms there's enough evidence indicating a crime may have been committed. the republican national committee fired strategic allied consulting last week after several counties reported questionable forms across southern florida. ♪ these are...

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big bird and i like you, too, but i'm not going to keep on spending money on things to borrow money from china to pay more. >> twitter went crazy. 17,000 tweets per minute. the hash tag, save big bird was trending. and three big handles popped up, @bigbird, @big birdromney and @fired bigbird. the middle class has been buried the last four years. jesse jackson jr. may now be back to work or won't be back to work until after the election. his wife says he's anxious to get back but he's fighting back from bipolar depression. he's on the ballot november 6. and never to be mistaken for big bird, my must read, the real life discovery of the remains of a dwarf dinosaur, which seems like an oxy moron. it looked like dracula.

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let's solve this. mitt romney's move to the middle with the polls showing him trailing the president in battleground states, he showed more centerist last night than in the primary debates. >> i like the fact in my state we had republicans and democrats come together and work together. regulation is essential. you can't have a free market work if you don't have regulation. my view is that we aught to provide tax relief to people in the middle class. >> let's bring in former new york governor george pataki and former governor ted strikland. good to see you. governor strickland, do you think governor romney earned some undecided voters last night? >> i would give him a b-plus on style. i would give him a d-minus on

substance and truthfulness. i don't think he was a truthful man last night. >> in what way, specifically. give me what you think is as "the washington post" likes to put it, your four pinochios. >> he doesn't have a $4 trillion tax cut plan, obviously he does. that's a big deal. >> let me play what president obama, that's one area where president obama hit him. let me play exactly what the president had to say about that. >> for 18 months he's been running on this tax plan. and now five weeks before the election he's saying that his big bold idea is nevermind. >> governor pataki, does governor romney owe his performance last night to the fact that he's pivoting more to the middle? >> not at all. he's been consistent with his campaign and what he's always believed in. you had a clip on how he worked with democrats. anybody who is a republican governor in a blue state can't get anything done unless they work with democrats. president obama has been one of

the most partisan presidents in washington i've ever seen in my lifetime. >> what about this $5 trillion tax cut? >> it's ridiculous. >> here's what the fact checker at "the new york times" said. he's proposed cutting marginal tax rates by 20%, which would in and of itself cut tax revenue by $5 trillion to make up that revenue mr. romney has said he wants to clear out the underbrush of deductions and loopholes but has not specified how he would do it. >> governor romney has made it plain. first of all, he doesn't want tax cuts for the rich. he's proposing lowering the top marginal rate to 28% obama's own commission recommended cutting it to 24%. so mitt romney's saying, i'm coming in 4% higher than obama's own commission. and by the way, obama's commission by getting rid of loopholes raised a trillion dollars in revenue. it didn't cut revenue at all. it raised revenue while cutting the rates more than mitt romney wants to cut the rates. now how is that a $5 trillion hole? >> governor strickland? >> hey, chris, can i talk just

for a moment. >> as long as it is just for a moment. >> he has a $5 trillion tax cut plan. he says it's going to be revenue neutral because he's going to offset it by getting rid of loopholes. the only loophole he had enough courage to mention last night was big bird and public broadcasting. you know, the tax deductions where the real money is, chris, is the mortgage tax deduction, charitable tax deductions, deductions that enabled parents to help their kids go to college, those are middle class deductions. and that's exactly why mitt romney is unwilling to say what those deductions are going to be, because these are deductions that strike at the heart of the middle class. and he wants to give tax cuts to rich people and put the tax burden on the backs of working folks. that's mitt romney's plan. >> that was what president obama hit him on and what many of the fact checkers are hitting him on this morning.

>> that's right. >> but here are the specifics. >> obviously the american people listen to both sides and concluded that mitt romney was right. because he happens to be right. and governor, respectfully, he said you lower the corporate tax rate to 25% and the petroleum industry exemptions can go away. that was another specific. >> he didn't say that. >> yes, he did say that. >> he said it might go away. he was not specific. >> let me play for you a series of clips because there's a lot of talk about, obviously, how important this election is and whether or not the american people, the voters were well-served last night. listen to this. >> dodd frank. >> dodd frank. >> bowles simpson. >> bowles simpson. >> did you think things got wonky last night? >> i think governor strickland was watching a different debate because it was obvious mitt

romney said he would not cut taxes on the upper income americans but cut taxes on middle income americans. by the way, everybody is saying, why was obama pretty bad? it's pretty simple to me, what is he going to run on, his record? is he going to run on jobs? is he going to run on finances or deficit? unemployment? what did he say about the future? >> governor strickland? >> what deductions was mitt romney willing to lay before the american people? >> what he said is -- >> he has an idea but there's no detail there. and the american people know that when you cut taxes for wealthy people and somebody's got to pay the freight man. somebody's got to carry the burden of keeping this government running, of paying veteran benefits, of making sure medicare is secure, of protecting social security. i mean, mitt romney is devoid of

specifics. and that's the problem with the mitt romney plan. >> you know, i think the problem with your analysis of romney's campaign is that you're using obama's spin points. we are going to cut veteran benefits, we are going to decimate social security, all of which is utter nonsense. the bowles simpson, obama's commission, i don't mean to get wonky here, chris, said they were going to lower the upper rates on americans far more than before. and by the way, governor romney said that you could look at the bowles simpson as a good starting point and make changes to it. and that laid out a great range of options, all of which are available. and finally, governor, governor romney said he wants to work with congress, including democrats. he's not going to say my way or the highway, which is what obama did. he's going to sit down and say, these are my ideas, what do you think, how can we put this together? >> let me ask this --

>> he said my way or the highway! he said my way or the highway because he said -- >> governor, let me answer this last question, which is one of the things american people were looking for last night in their frustration with congress is who is going to be able to work with congress? who is going to move things forward? give me your take on what they might have come away with from the debate last night, governor strickland? >> i think governor romney used massachusetts as an example. so he was able to get democrats to help him pass a comprehensive health care bill, which during most of this campaign he's rejected his own accomplishment. listen, mitt romney has a plan to cut taxes, $5 trillion. it's going to be revenue-neutral and the only way it can be revenue-neutral is to add tax burdens to working middle class people. now, he wouldn't mention a single deduction that he was

willing to get rid of, save big bird. i mean, that's significant to the american people. >> governor strickland, i have to let that be the last word. i have to let that be the last word. we are out of time. governor strickland, thank you. governor pataki, great to have you in. also making news, health officials are trying to track down hundreds of people across the country who could be infected with a rare and deadly form of men jitsz. the cdc says four people have died and 22 more sickened. investigators blame the outbreak on a bad batch of steroids from a pharmacy in massachusetts that was being used to treat back pain. just a day before the new unemployment numbers come out, a new survey shows employers are cutting back on layoffs. the challenger gray and christmas firm says layoffs were up 4.9% from august. right now the unemployment rate stands at 8.1%. cashing in on the presidential election, mandy

duringry is here with what's moving your money. jet blue is the latest company to jump on the bandwagon. they call this election protection. >> that's right, election protection, chris. ahead of next month's presidential election, jet blue is offering you a way to make good on threats to leave the country if your candidate does not win. now the airline is giving away a total of 2012 seats for customers on the losing end of the battle between obama and romney. let's have a listen. >> if things don't go your way, don't worry, here's your chance to get out of the country with a free flight. >> i'm taking the wife, the dog, the cat. >> adios. >> jet blue presents election protection 2012. >> now you can escape to mexico, there are also lots of other american and caribbean destinations. the free flight does not include taxes, fees or a hotel. so you are up for those costs. >> one of the weirder promotions, frito lay is doing a

promotion that's kind of cheesy, sorry for the pun. >> sorry for the pun. commissioned by cheetos, the artist jason boleman created portraits of both the presidents and contender romney using more than 2,000 individual cheetos, not counting all the ones lost in the artist's mouth along the way. >> i want to be clear, he's making these portraits using cheetos. >> it is part of cheetos vote for the big cheese poll. again, apologies for the pun. you can go, i believe, online, i think it is on the facebook page as well. and you have the chance to win one of these fabulous portraits and put it on your wall if you really want to. there you go. >> hail to the cheese. mandy drury, thank you. we'll be right back. ne. creamy spinach artichoke dip, crispy garlic chicken spring rolls. they're this season's must-have accessory. lean cuisine. be culinary chic.

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a new study from the center for disease control and prevention state that is children who consume too much salt are more likely to develop high pressure. this association is greater in overweight and obese children and on a whole boys tended to have more sodium in their diets. long before last night's debate was over fact checkers got to work, a theme mitt romney jumped on. >> mr. president, your entitled to your own airplane and your own house, but not your facts. >> joining me is shawn splicer and democratic national committee communications director brad woodhouse. we are going into the specifics of what was said last night, but brad, let me start with you. i want to ask both of you this, analysts say that these debates in a battle between style versus substance, style wins out in the end. how much does fact checking matter? >> well, look, i think it

matters. what i think you saw last night happened with mitt romney was he took some short-term gain for some long-term pain. i mean, look, chris, last night if mitt romney was talking, he was lying. he lied about his tax plan that cost $5 trillion. his campaign has never disputed that his tax plan costs $5 trillion until last night. he lied about medicare and what his plan will do. >> we are going to get into some of those specifics, so here's -- >> here's my point, chris. i don't believe that style will win out over substance in the long run. one reason mitt romney -- >> let me ask the same question to shawn. shawn, style versus substance? >> right. i think last night was a clear choice. and on style and on substance or any other measure that you want to judge it, mitt romney laid out a clear plan for this country and did it in a way that resonated with most americans. i think on the other hand it was not a question of style that the

president lacked, it was a lacking of policies and a record over the last four years that he was able to pivot to. and i think the problem is that at some point in the middle of the debate last night the president finally realized, wait, i have actually been president the last four years, i can't bash the last four years because i was actually in charge. i had a democratic congress. and i don't have much to show for it. so i think that's the biggest problem. it was not just a style thing. it actually was a very clear substance issue that the president lacked last night. >> all right. let's sort of truth chest one of the big issues of this campaign, the deficit. msnbc's richard luis, you are the truth squad. what about the deficit? >> this is what the president said his plan would cut, the deficit, it would cut it by $4 trillion. take a listen. >> i put forward a specific $4 trillion deficit reduction plan. it's on a website. you can look at all the numbers. what cuts we make and what revenue we raise. >> well, chris, the president is counting money saved by letting

the bush tax cuts expire for people making more than $250,000 a year. but he's also counting $1 trillion in savings by drawing down the wars in iraq and afghanistan. nonpartisan budget experts call that a gimmick because the wars were deficit-financed in the first place. >> back to our panel. brad, your thoughts on the deficit? >> well, look, first of all, you won't be surprised that i disagree with that analysis. you know the president, the savings from the wars is actually true and important. i mean, mitt romney, chris, wants to spend $2 trillion on the defense department the pentagon asked for and he wants to go back to war in iraq. those should be concerns of the american people. those would explode the deficit. he didn't lay out one single detail about how other than going after big bird how he would deal with the deficit last night. not one single detail. >> what were the details there, shawn? >> okay, hold on a second. this is the same president who

attacks -- hold on, brad, quiet down. i actually am going to make a point factual. you may want to take note. the president in the same debate said that he wants to achieve savings through drawing down the war in iraq and afghanistan, but it is also the same president who said the wars were not paid for, they were paid for with borrowed money from china. if you're borrowing money from china to pay for it and say i'm going to have deficit savings for money borrowed, as richard pointed out, it does not make sense. the other issue is that four years ago when the president stood on the stage with senator mccain, he laid out a plan and said, i'm going to cut the deficit in half by the end of my first term. not only was it not cut in half, but he added $5.4 trillion. we have a $16 trillion deficit now. >> i want to do another fact check here. hold on, guys. the third reel of politics also came up last night. here's what mitt romney said on

medicare. >> what i support is no change for current retirees and near retirees to medicare. and the president supports taking $716 billion out of that program. >> richard, what about that claim? >> well, chris, in fact, that $716 billion comes from trimming plan future increases over the next decade, not cutting funding. now, those trims come from eliminating payments to health care providers and insurers, not limited care to seniors. medicare's chief act ware says mr. obama's health form substantially improves the program's finances. romney's changes would not affect anyone currently over the age of 55. now, also last night, president obama said that unlike medicare social security does not need to be fundamentally fixed to remain solvent. take a listen. >> social security is structurally sound. it's going to have to be tweaked the way it was by ronald reagan and speaker, democratic speaker

tip o'neal. >> according to the congressional budget office, social security will run into financial trouble. by the year 2030 the amount social security pays out will exceed the tax revenue coming in. so, chris, in about 20 years the program will not be able to pay for itself. >> thank you for that, richard. we'll take a quick break, come back and let our panel weigh in on the medicare debate. we'll be right back. let's see if walmart can help you find the same look for less. okay. see? walmart has all these leading eyewear brands and styles. rockstar! really? yeah. oh, wow! oh, black frame looks good on you. yeah? you can get a complete pair starting at just -- $38. really?! and did you know that our glasses come with a free 12-month replacement guarantee? i didn't know walmart had all this. the price is impressive, the quality is too! come to walmart and see for yourself. find quality eyewear brands starting at just $38. only at walmart. what are they fitting, aliens? now we need a little bit more... a little bit more vanilla? this is great! [ male announcer ] at humana, we believe

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let's bring my panel back in, shawn splicer, i want to go back to you, shawn. he says the program improves campaign finances. there's been a lot of moves among seniors on voucher care, and we have seen a big movement away from mitt romney toward the president in the latest polls. what about that? >> well, i think what the deal is with medicare, like richard pointed out, social security is

going bankrupt and the president has no plan to extend its solvency. on medicare the same thing stands. medicare goes bankrupt in 2023. and so anyone who is under 55 right now, right now that program will be bankrupt. what the president did is take $716 billion, cut it out of medicare to fund obama care. the program that richard pointed out is the way they did this is to finance it by reducing payments to doctors and hospitals. let's face it, what you're also seeing is if you don't give doctors and hospitals the money for services, then they won't perform the services. it's a false choice. and what it is is looking at it in a mathematical equation. >> brad, is it a false choice? >> every year congress comes in and proposes savings, then they add them back in. >> shawn just said it was mathematical equation. he doesn't want to deal with math. look, the math is this. and by the way, chris, one of the problems of fact-checking this is their plan, the ryan --

romney plan to repeal obama care and medicare are linked. if you repeal obama care, you will bring on the insolvency, i mean, shawn talks about how under our plan medicare will go bankrupt in 2024. under mitt romney's plan it will go bankrupt in 2016. by repeal on obama care -- >> actually, he has a plan to save it for the future, actually. he's the only one. >> let me finish. >> guys, unfortunately, we are out of time, but there are two more presidential debates, the vice presidential debate, it is going to be interesting. shawn splicer, brad woodhouse, good of you to come on this morning. thank you for coming on. i'm chris jansing. a little feistiness. >> it is time for you to get a much deserved drink of water, cup of coffee. >> something. does president obama lose his mojo for this debate as part of a larger re-election

strategy? plus, romney pulls the debate in switch, but will post-debate momentum make a difference in battleground states like ohio and florida? and charlie chris will join me. meanwhile, fact checkers are busy today after mitt romney tries to reexplain his tax plan, the president calling it mr. romney's "oh nevermind strategy." and specifically, which debate matters most, the first or the last? ron reagan and megan mccain join me with their takes on that. much more coming up after this. i'm barack oba ma, and i approve i'm barack this message.

oba these appliances could have been made here in america. but a company called global tech maximized profits by paying its workers next to nothing... under sweatshop conditions in china. when mitt romney led bain, they saw global tech as a good investment... even knowing that the firm promoted its practice of exploiting... low-wage labor to its investors. mitt romney - tough on china? since when?

good morning, everybody. i'm thomas roberts. the president looks unprepared and his team tries to regroup while romney and fair-weather republicans bask in the after glow. mitt romney trying to keep the momentum alive. president obama trying to recover from headlines like this.